Duplicated entry? Belize 5 cents

Are these two pages duplicates?
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces5408.html
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces23886.html

They have different KMs, but otherwise are identical; even the years overlap.

This is an odd one, for sure. My 36th edition Krause 1901-2000 published in 2009 does not list a KM#115 for Belize, just the KM#34a which it describes as follows:

KM#34a 5 CENTS
1.0700 g., Aluminum, 20.15 mm. Obv: Bust of Queen Elizabeth
II right Rev: Denomination within circle Edge: Plain
Date Mintage F VF XF Unc BU
1976 1,000,000 — — 0.10 0.25 0.60
1979 960,000 — — 0.10 0.25 0.75
1980 1,040,000 — — 0.10 0.25 0.60
1986 — — — 0.10 0.25 0.60
1987 — — — 0.10 0.25 0.60
1989 — — — 0.10 0.25 0.60
1991 — — — 0.10 0.25 0.60
1992 — — — 0.10 0.25 0.60
1993 — — — 0.10 0.25 0.60
1994 — — — 0.10 0.25 0.60
2000 — — — 0.10 0.25 0.60

And yet if you visit www.numismaster.com and search for Belize 5 Cents, it does return both these issues (as well as many others):

KM#34a  5 Cents 1973-2009 Aluminum  Obv: Bust of Queen Elizabeth II right Rev: Denomination within circle
Denomination 5 Cents
Country Belize
Government Commonwealth
Coinage Type Decimal Coinage
Composition Aluminum
Weight 1.04 g  
Diameter 20.2 mm
Edge Type Plain
Description Obverse Bust of Queen Elizabeth II right
Description Reverse Denomination within circle
Designer Obverse Cecil Thomas

KM#115  5 Cents 1992-2002 Aluminum
Denomination 5 Cents
Country Belize
Government Commonwealth
Coinage Type Decimal Coinage
Composition Aluminum
Weight 1.05 g  
Diameter 20.2 mm

As you can see, details are a bit more sketchy on the #115 and there is no image available. I know this doesn't fully answer you query but I hope it helps.

edit: www.worldcoingallery.com does have images for both:


Belize km34a 5 Cents (1973-2006) aluminum


Belize km115 5 Cents (1992-2002)

ah man i just swapped one of those didnt even realize they were off by a .01 of a gram could have added another km to my collection

I think the km115 entry is bogus.  All km115 coins are really km34a.  0.01g is a statistically insignificant weight variance upon which to derive a alleged 'new coin type'.

We can be smarter than Krause.

I agree with cerulean on the weight issue - even modern produced euros have weight
differences. this can't be the reason - if there is one!

let's ask ourselves: why did Krause give it that number?
there is no obvious change in design, it has no other "sister" coins like a similar
50 cents coin for example (which could be something like KM#117)
it has the same metal as far as we know. and it's aluminium! that is a metal
you would not easily mistaken for something different. a new "mixture" / alloy is most
unrealistic (which could have been a reason if the metal would be a Copper alloy, which
might change composition or get a Steel core etc.).

I agree on: let's be smarter than Krause, I would vote for a merging of both entries,
unless someone asks Krause what they thought when doing this

who's on for that task?

after further inspection of my 2 it appears to be the amount of beads which makes the .01grams weight change thus probably the km change

really. could you count them? I don't have both

This is the reverse of my 1994 which I have catalogued, rightly or wrongly, as KM#34a. I have measured it at 20.2mm diameter, it weighs in at 1.04g and has a plain edge. If it is the inner beads you are referring to, then I counted mine twice and both times it came out as 69. I'd be interested to hear how many beads there are on other peoples' coins. Please don't ask me to count the outer beads, my magnifying glass and my eyesight are not that good!

Also just noticed a(nother) contradiction between my 36th edition Krause and Numismaster and WCG. The latter two both refer to KM#34a as being minted 1973 to 2009, whereas my Krause DVD says that KM34a was minted 1976 onwards and it was KM#34 in Nickel-Brass with a similar diameter but much heavier, that was first issued in 1973 and then annually up to 1976 and finally again in 1979.

Cita: "Makake77"...it has no other "sister" coins like a similar 50 cents coin for example (which could be something like KM#117)

That's not completely true. There is even such a "sister" coin in the Numista catalog, the 50 cents KM#118: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces34788.html
And for instance in the 2006 Krause, 33th edition there were other "sister" coins too: KM#114 (1 cent), KM#116 (10 cents), KM#117 (25 cents) and KM#118 (50 cents).
In later editions most of them were removed BUT:
In the 2015 Krause 1901 - 2000, 42nd edition the 50 cent KM#118 is still mentioned and even in the 2016 Krause 2001 - date, 10th edition the 5 cents KM#115 is also still mentioned.

The supposedly 0.1 gr. weight difference is certainly not a reason for a new KM# number, 0.1 gr. is a normal weight tolerance.

@radrick007: I also counted the beads of the inner circle on my 1994 5 cents and my 2 1993 5 cents and they all have 69 beads as yours and as other dates which are not commonly like the 1980 and 1991.
If I was sure the difference is in the amount of beads near the rim, I would try to count them too (although this is indeed very difficult). But because there is nowhere any mentioning about it I'm not going to loose my time on trying. And I also believe the KM#115 is another mistake of Krause, but I'm not an expert to know that for sure.

More information you also find here: http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=162570

I know this is an old thread (I didn't noticed it when I initially added my coins from Belize but I just saw it now when I added some new 5 cent coins). However, it is still actual as long as those new types stay in the Krause editions.

Do you know how this all started? When they issued a new dollar coin it was with a different bust of the Queen. So they thought that all the smaller denominations had the different bust also. My father had just returned with a pocket full of current dated coins that still had the original bust. Took a while to convince them to correct what they have done. I will submit the change to Krause again.

Thanks, I'll hope they listen because I have the impression Krause got lax over the years. And I'm afraid as long as the mistakes about the 5 and 50 cents stay in Krause, the double entries here on Numista also stay.

And indeed, in the description of the 50 cents KM# 118 they talk about a new bust, but coins with a later date still have the older bust, so something is not right.

Yeah, but in the meantime our Numista catalogue is completely wrong, shouldn't the referee put it back into order?

There is no Belize referee.

Bad luck...

I told Krause for years about those issues. They never believed me .

Cita: "Oklahoman"​I told Krause for years about those issues. They never believed me .

​
More reason why collectors & dealers gave up on trying to get information corrected in Krause - as they refused to change.

Aidan.