Iran: 10 rial AH1361-AD1982, km1235???

Hi,

the numista catalog for this coin seems to be wrong! I have documented the 3 types of this coin and I cannot see, how they correspond to the catalog?
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces1697.html



Can anybody help me further? Thanks in advance.

Ole

Hi Ole,

First of all, congratulations, very nice work!

According to KM, the distinction between KM#1235.1 and KM#1235.2 is the redesigned wreath on the reverse, started in SH1361. I assume this new design is what they call here on the coin page "thick wreath". As we can see on your pictures the term "narrow space at top ends wreath" would be much more obvious than "thick wreath". We can also see that all the  KM#1235.1 coins have a wide date and all the KM#1235.2 coins have a narrow date. The easiest way to see this is the place of the sign above the Arabic three (۳) in the date. With the wide date the sign is directly above the ۳, with the narrow date it is between the ۱ and the ۳.

It's not uncommon that minor varieties don't get a new KM # number. I can live with that. As long as these existing varieties are well and obvious explained so our coins can be unmistakenly determinated.
So I agree with you that the explanation on the coin page doesn't correspond with the three varieties your pictures show:  

1361 (1982)     ۱۳۶۱ KM#1235.1 (wide date letters)
1361 (1982)     ۱۳۶۱ KM#1235.1 (wide date letters, thick wreath)
1361 (1982)     ۱۳۶۱ KM#1235.2 (narrow date letters)

The KM numbering is correct. Your 1st and 2nd coin are KM#1235.1 and your 3rd coin is KM#1235.2
But the explanation of the varieties is wrong. The 1st and 3rd variety of the SH1361 are correct but the 2nd one is wrong. In the explanation on top you can see that "wide date" and "thick wreath" are the same variety.  So their must come another description to show the difference between the two KM#1235.1 coins.
As we look at your pictures, we can choose for full tulip - small tulip, short line - long line, but I think the easiest way is to look at the Arabic text above that line: far from tulip - near tulip (this you will always see, even if the coin is worn).

So I suggest to change the coin page for SH1361 like this:

1361 (1982)      ۱۳۶۱ KM#1235.1 (wide date, Arabic text above line far from tulip)
1361 (1982)      ۱۳۶۱ KM#1235.1 (wide date, Arabic text above line near tulip)
1361 (1982)      ۱۳۶۱ KM#1235.2 (narrow date)

Hi,

I think it's more complicated than that, please see the documentation of the 1235.x coins I have in my collection and you'll understand....





Have fun to figure out how it should be

Ole

Okay, I'll try to puzzle it out later this evening/tomorrow.
But with your good pictures we'll probably come a long way.

Thank you Ole.
I must do a research or ask an expert about it.

Okay Ole, your coins don't quite match the data in the Numista database, and neither the Krause  SCOWC. Your pictures obviously show that there also exist a small date in SH1364, SH1365 and SH1366, so there must be added at least  a few lines at the coinpage.

There are the KM# numbers, with the following differences :
KM# 1235.1: "wide space at top ends wreath" (on the reverse) and "wide date" (the left sign above the date is directly above the ۳)
KM# 1235.2: "narrow space at top ends wreath" (on the reverse) and "narrow date" (the left sign is between the ۱ and the ۳)
So this is how it should be, with the lines that need to be added in bold:

1358 (1979)     ۱۳۵۸ KM#1235.1 (wide and small date)
1358 (1979)     ۱۳۵۸ KM#1235.1 (wide and large date)
1359 (1980)     ۱۳۵۹ KM#1235.1 (wide date)
1360 (1981)     ۱۳۶۰ KM#1235.1 (wide date)
1361 (1982)     ۱۳۶۱ KM#1235.1 (wide date, Arabic text above line far from tulip)
1361 (1982)     ۱۳۶۱ KM#1235.1 (wide date, Arabic text above line near tulip)
1361 (1982)     ۱۳۶۱ KM#1235.2 (narrow date)
1362 (1983)     ۱۳۶۲ KM#1235.2 (narrow date)
1363 (1984)     ۱۳۶۳ KM#1235.2 (narrow date)
1364 (1985)     ۱۳۶۴ KM#1235.1 (wide  and small date)
1364 (1985)     ۱۳۶۴ KM#1235.2 (narrow  and large date)
1365 (1986)     ۱۳۶۵ KM#1235.1 (wide  and small date)
1365 (1986)     ۱۳۶۵ KM#1235.2 (narrow date)
1366 (1987)     ۱۳۶۶ KM#1235.1 (wide and small date)
1366 (1987)     ۱۳۶۶ KM#1235.2 (narrow and small date)
1366 (1987)     ۱۳۶۶ KM#1235.2 (narrow and large date)
1367 (1988)     ۱۳۶۷ KM#1235.2 (narrow date)

Ole, as you can see on your pictures, your SH1364, SH1365 and SH1366 all have a "wide space at top ends wreath" so in the description under your pictures the KM# number is wrong.  These are all three KM#1235.1 in stead of KM#1235.2
And as you also can see, at all three coins the left sign above the date is directly above the ۳, so they are not narrow dates but wide dates, so that you have to change too.

Hopefully someone of the Numista team can add the three bold lines and adjust the comment on all lines.

Hi,

I've given my coins the km# you have suggested, but I'm far from convinced about your new classifications of km1235 coins. Please have a look at my new 4th part of the documentation.






Honestly I want to see the images of ALL the coins mentioned before I'll agree on all those different variants going into the numista catalog.

Ole

Hi,

we have not come to the end of this, have we?

Ole