Why does PMG not grade these notes

Notes Not Eligible for PMG Grading | PMG

just curious why these notes specifically. For example Chile P125, there seems to be nothing wrong with it. Anyone got any insights on why PMG refuse to grade that list of notes?

Maybe there are high quality fakes of them and they don't have a way right now to distinguish those?

Idolenz

Maybe there are high quality fakes of them and they don't have a way right now to distinguish those?

+1

I just looked at the Chilean 1 Centisimo example (low value tough overprint) & Greece P-166 (high value overprint on WW2 issue). There is no comment on the fractional denom from Chile but the Greek note has a Numista comment that "all overprints are believed to be spurious.”    Even the 25 Dinars from Iraq are contentious b/c they're from the Emergency issue which were stolen or something. I didn't bother to look up the notes from China b/c so many were faked years & years ago.  So there has probably been some type of cloud of suspicion either over the ID# or their authenticity for decades (& PMG doesn't wish to draw in an expert in just to verity a note with a bad reputation anymore as it just isn't worth it). 

The list was last updated in 2020. I am surprised they haven't revised it & added Zimbabwe P-91 yet. 

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Idolenz

Maybe there are high quality fakes of them and they don't have a way right now to distinguish those?

+1

I just looked at the Chilean 1 Centisimo example (low value tough overprint) & Greece P-166 (high value overprint on WW2 issue). There is no comment on the fractional denom from Chile but the Greek note has a Numista comment that "all overprints are believed to be spurious.”    Even the 25 Dinars from Iraq are contentious b/c they're from the Emergency issue which were stolen or something. I didn't bother to look up the notes from China b/c so many were faked years & years ago.  So there has probably been some type of cloud of suspicion either over the ID# or their authenticity for decades (& PMG doesn't wish to draw in an expert in just to verity a note with a bad reputation anymore as it just isn't worth it). 

 

The list was last updated in 2020. I am surprised they haven't revised it & added Zimbabwe P-91 yet. 

I see. That's a bit funny since I thought PMG prides itself on being the premier grading service able to grade the authenticity of notes or something but then just refuse to grade these supposedly “difficult to ascertain” notes. Just a guess. 

Honestly, if even banknotes can be this hard to grade authenticity for PMG, I can't imagine how it is for coins with NGC and PCGS lol. Seems much easier to counterfeit coins if you ask me

Their rules would seem to exclude known modern forgeries, as well as contemporary forgeries of older notes produced before modern fakes were made of collectible notes. A sensible approach, I guess.

They don't have to add the Zimbabwe note yet. So far, all the counterfeits are all easy to spot (when the note is in hand). 

They just don't have the time to verify a note which has been manipulated to represent something it is not.  This may be the unfortunate consequence of an inexpensive note (which has few security features) being altered cheaply to look like like a very expensive variant.  It has nothing to do with a bias against certain currencies but rather a business decision which centres around cost effectiveness. It also has nothing to do with PMG specifically but most TPG will not certify known notes which have been copied to death.

About 30 years ago, when I first heard about TPG's (Third Party Graders) I was not a fan. Then about 10 years ago, I wanted to get some expensive 1935 notes which were original (& not processed). This is actually harder than one might expect b/c the majority of collectors who own Bank of Canada 35's are American collectors (asking for our BV in USD). So at this time, TPG was my best option (& provided a good deal of peace of mind).  I could have cared less whether the TPG was PMG or BCS (our Canadian Banknote Certification Services).  Since then, I have read a lot of abusive comments re: TPG co's grade misses or “slabbing notes” b/c some collectors out there felt the act was completely redundant (“we can grade ourselves” position: that's okay. I respect that we cannot & do not collect the same way). 

I was hunting for a grader's take on the grading business (TPG's) when I came across this reply to one of the countless “To Grade or Not to Grade” threads. This comes from a professional grader of another certifying organization (not PMG):

I appreciate most of you jumping in to voice opinions on this topic. There are always opinions, some valid and some not, as well as some rumors that never seem to go away.

The truth of the matter is, at least with PCGS Currency, that auction companies, larger submitters, and "favored customers" don't get better grades. We love currency, we want to protect the hobby, and we want to provide the best service we can. We are in business to make money, and we aren't about to do anything (like favor someone with better grades) that would hurt our business or our reputation. I can't speak for PMG, but I suspect that their motives are very much in line with ours.

In addition, we quite simply have way too many notes to grade every day to even care whose they are. When you grade 2000-3000 notes a week, they all start running together. It's all about grading the notes as accurately as possible and shipping them out the door. Ask anyone who has submitted a note at a show for grading and later sees me and asks what I thought of their [insert specific note here].....more likely than not they got a dazed look from me and a shrug. I don't think any of our graders would be able to remember very many specific notes that he or she examined during a particular day.

There is of course a human element to grading...every once and a while a note comes along that one day might be graded by one of our experts a 65, and the next day he or she might grade it a 64. That's precisely why we have at least three (and sometimes four or more) experts look at almost every note that we receive for grading. The individual variation tends to be reduced tremendously that way, and increases the accuracy of the grades to the point that a single individual opinion that might be off base for whatever reason matters very little in the scheme of things. Our grading guarantee is in place so that when we all get it wrong (which does happen, although thankfully rarely) we will be financially responsible for that mistake.

And one more thing...don't believe half the rumors you hear about the grading services, and discount the validity of the other half. We've always been up front and honest about our motives, who owns our company, and who our graders and experts are. If it didn't come from us, don't count on it.

This is an interesting topic. I do not send in my notes to have it graded as it would mean that I have to spend extra on this hobby when it is already a financial stress to my pocket just to get the note itself (fake or not).

Here is my question. Doesn't every note submitted need to be verified that it is not a copy or fake before beginning the process? If I were them, I would just grade all notes and then in bold add the word FAKE on the label to teach them a lesson. If the owner was not aware then this is a good lesson to learn - Buyer Beware. If not, go back to the original seller and demand for their money back unless the price was just simply too good to be true!

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