Clarification on issuer for Bonn banknote [resuelto]

I recently acquired this note and was planning on adding to the catalog, but it looks like someone beat me too it.

My question is regarding the issuer. It was added with the issuer “City of Bonn”. I know that the Bonn City emblem is on the obverse and the text Bonn is on the reverse, but the text to the left on the obverse states that it is valid in the Cologne Administrative District:

Umlauffahig im ganzen Regierungsbezirk Koln Gultig bis zum 1. April 1924

Valid throughout the Cologne administrative district until April 1, 1924

I know that there are other notes with the same emblem on the obverse and same large text “Bonn” on the reverse that are listed under different issuers per the note text (example below).

N#359800

I was wondering if someone can confirm if the City of Bonn is the correct issuer, as it seems like the Administrative District of Cologne should be the proper issuer instead?

Tagging @Silberschatz for additional input as the referee.

Thanks,

Tony

I would think yes, the city of Bonn issued it (or better the Chamber of Commerce) but they are valid in the whole of the Cologne administrative district (which Bonn is a part of).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne_(region)

There is no issuer in the catalog for the Administrative District of Cologne, so one would need to be requested. I am more then happy to do that, if the notgeld referee agrees with the findings of this thread.

@vladthiengo 

Wondering what your thoughts are since we have not heard back from the referee. I have a note that is missing from the catalog that I'd like to add but its from the same issuer so I'd like to get this sorted first before adding it

ajbbarbados

@vladthiengo 

 

Wondering what your thoughts are since we have not heard back from the referee. I have a note that is missing from the catalog that I'd like to add but its from the same issuer so I'd like to get this sorted first before adding it

Hello, Tony!

I sent a private message to the reviewer. Let's wait a few more days for their response. =)

Regards,

Vladimir

Hello, 

sorry for the delay, I was out for holidays over the festives. I did review the notes under Bonn as a city and as a district and was putting each into the right category of those notes that were already in the catalog. You can add new notes without hesitate - I will review them in case and sort them to the right issuer as the German texts on the notes are sometimes a bit tricky. 

Best Regards and thank you for patience :) 

Michael

Thanks for your reply Michael

I guess my question still remains however. I'm wondering if I should add the new note as the City of Bonn or go through the process of requesting a new issuer for the District of Koln, since the later seems more accurate. I'm willing do do all the heavy lifting on that. Just wanted to get confirmation on whether that is accurate for the issuer from those more knowledgeable then me. 😁

Thanks,

Tony

Ah ok, but no, the Regierungsbezirk Köln is not the issuer when the City and the District of Bonn are named as issuer on the note. Umlauffähig means just valid like Spanish Euro coins are valid in Germany too but the issuer is still Spain and not Eurozone or so. I wouldn't go for a new issuer for that notes, except the Regierungsbezirk is the issuer (with its names and signatures etc.). But the linked banknote was given from Bonn. 

So would that apply to notes in the catalog for the “Bonn and Sieg Districts”, cause there is a separate issuer for those but that seems to be the same kind of circumstance as this note. So should these all be moved to Bonn as well?

N#207418

I would say it depends on the stamps and signatures/mentions. On some notes is just the Oberbürgermeister and the seal of the city of Bonn and on some we also find both the Oberbürgermeister and the Landrat from the district as well. Technically those are the ones who issue the note I think. 

Ah, I see in this Million N#207418 Bonn-Stadt, Bonn-Land and Siegkreis are mentioned but only the Oberbürgermeister signed 🤔

So this may can stay with the districts. I don't know, somehow their policy doesn't seem to be stringent back then. 

The ones from Koblenz a few kilometers up the river come with both signatures from city and district for example: 

N#350016

Silberschatz

Ah, I see in this Million N#207418 Bonn-Stadt, Bonn-Land and Siegkreis are mentioned but only the Oberbürgermeister signed 🤔

So this may can stay with the districts. I don't know, somehow their policy doesn't seem to be stringent back then. 

Yeah that is where I think some of the continued confusion is for me as the signatures and titles are the same, so it seems like most of the Bonn and Sieg notes should be listed under just Bonn instead

By the way, the note I was planning to add after this conversation was decided has been added by someone else recently

N#551749

ajbbarbados

Silberschatz

Ah, I see in this Million N#207418 Bonn-Stadt, Bonn-Land and Siegkreis are mentioned but only the Oberbürgermeister signed 🤔

So this may can stay with the districts. I don't know, somehow their policy doesn't seem to be stringent back then. 

Yeah that is where I think some of the continued confusion is for me as the signatures and titles are the same, so it seems like most of the Bonn and Sieg notes should be listed under just Bonn instead

@Silberschatz Wondering if the possible moving of notes to the Bonn page from the Bonn and sieg page has been considered? Both have the red Bonn city seal on the obverse, and many of those same notes listed under Bonn and Sieg simply say Bonn on them, so maybe they should be moved. The Bonn and Sieg usage description appears to be like the initial question I asked about Koln in the it does not appear to be the actual issuer.

I know Numista is different from Colnect but they have everything listed as Bonn which makes sense to me.

https://colnect.com/en/banknotes/list/country/559-German_Notgeld/series/245819-Bonn/page/6
 

Let me know if this is something that you agree with or not.

Thanks,

Tony

ajbbarbados

Silberschatz

Ah, I see in this Million N#207418 Bonn-Stadt, Bonn-Land and Siegkreis are mentioned but only the Oberbürgermeister signed 🤔

So this may can stay with the districts. I don't know, somehow their policy doesn't seem to be stringent back then. 

Yeah that is where I think some of the continued confusion is for me as the signatures and titles are the same, so it seems like most of the Bonn and Sieg notes should be listed under just Bonn instead

@Silberschatz Wondering if the possible moving of notes to the Bonn page from the Bonn and sieg page has been considered? Both have the red Bonn city seal on the obverse, and many of those same notes listed under Bonn and Sieg simply say Bonn on them, so maybe they should be moved. The Bonn and Sieg usage description appears to be like the initial question I asked about Koln in the it does not appear to be the actual issuer.

I know Numista is different from Colnect but they have everything listed as Bonn which makes sense to me.

https://colnect.com/en/banknotes/list/country/559-German_Notgeld/series/245819-Bonn/page/6
 

Let me know if this is something that you agree with or not.

Thanks,

Tony

Probably I don't care because there was no stringence when they issued their notes in and around Bonn, so both ways will be fine as there is no right or wrong answer 🤷

So would there be any issues from your end if I submitted requests to move those notes with the Bonn city seal and with Bonn in large text on the notes to the Bonn issuer instead of Bonn and Sieg, as the later seems incorrect?

That's ok :)

I will make the changes then. Thanks