Suriname: 5 cent 1966, km12.1, privy marks & sixes

N#6022

here are the year lines for 1966 coins in numista:

and here the year lines from SCWC 46th edition:

I set this up to compare the two systems:

which has to be seen with this:

What do you think?

Ole

PS. Just a thought, maybe someone thought that slant of 10° is vertical compared to a slant of 30°?

Two minor additions:

1. The privy mark in from 1945-1969 is usually called ‘fish’ (not ‘dolphin’). The fish relates to the name of the mint master, J.W.A. van Hengel. Dutch hengel means ‘fishing rod’.

https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lijst_van_Nederlandse_muntmeestertekens

2. The tilting of the Caduceus mark of the Utrecht mint is a deliberate design choice and depends on the privy mark. Because the fish privy mark is oriented more or less diagonally, the mint mark was tilted to obtain a symmetrical view. For all following privy marks, upright position of the caduceus was chosen.

ArnoV

Two minor additions:

 

1. The privy mark in from 1945-1969 is usually called ‘fish’ (not ‘dolphin’). The fish relates to the name of the mint master, J.W.A. van Hengel. Dutch hengel means ‘fishing rod’.

https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lijst_van_Nederlandse_muntmeestertekens

 

2. The tilting of the Caduceus mark of the Utrecht mint is a deliberate design choice and depends on the privy mark. Because the fish privy mark is oriented more or less diagonally, the mint mark was tilted to obtain a symmetrical view. For all following privy marks, upright position of the caduceus was chosen.

Thanks for your comments.

1. It's duly noted and acted upon, that the mint mark is a fish and not a dolphin😊

2. Can you confirm that the upright privy mark was not used in 1966?

Take care

Ole

2. Can you confirm that the upright privy mark was not used in 1966?

I don't have a representative number of these coins to say anything statistically meaningful. I have once read that the tilting had to do with the orientation of the fish privy mark. Unfortunately, I can't find a source for it, but it does reflect the situation on all post WW2 Dutch and Dutch colonial coins I've consciously inspected.

Instead of looking at the dates, I would advise the variant chaser to look for combinations of fish + upright caduceus or any other privy mark + tilted caduceus, as those should not exist (in my collection and among my duplicates, I have none).

Homeland Dutch coins of 1969 exist with two privy marks, so you have nice 'minimal pairs' to compare:

For that matter: one more correction. The symbol of the Utrecht mint is the Caduceus, or Hermes' or Mercury's staff - the symbol for commerce - which is not to be confused with the Rod of Asclepius - the symbol for medicine. In our case it is the proper symbol for the proper symbolic meaning, so ideally, the proper name should be used.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caduceus

On the wiki page is also a paragraph about confusion with the Rod of Asclepius.

Thanks again

OK, now?

Maybe you should take a look into the Suriname coins in Numista to put things straight?

Here the privy mark is defined as a mint mark, still about the 5 cents from 1966, so I suppose it's a general problem for Suriname?

Do you take care of that?

Groeten

Ole

Indeed I see confusion on the Numista page between mint and privy mark. It is about the caduceus mint mark which is slanted or not.

The caduceus is the mint mark of the Utrecht mint. The fish, rooster, ship, seahorse, etc. are the privy marks, in Dutch usually referred to as 'mint master's mark' (muntmeesterteken).

 I can have a look at the pages one of these days.

Hi Ole, medal alignment is mentioned in Krause with KM 12.2 (see image) as it is in Numista year lines ;)

Both again, now I hope to have it right?

Thanks for the help

Ole