Brandenburg-Prussia - 1⁄24 Thaler/1 Dreipölker

Hello

Is it the same coin or not? If not, what's the difference?

N#85226

N#72765

My coin:

I would guess Krause mistake and from lettering it seems they are variants of the same.

In my opinion, the photos are certainly of the same coin type.

Krause has this coin as KM#116.1 : https://numismaster.com/MC_97189

The only place I see KM#56.5 is at Katz listings like this one:  https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=8251010

Maybe an error by Katz that got picked up by whoever submitted the listing.

In Krause the obverse lettering for KM# 116.1 is “GE. WI. MA. - BR. B.R. I. H.”.  Numista lists “GE. WI. MA. BR. S. R. I. E.”. They agree on the reverse lettering of “MONE. NO. - DVC. PRVS.” (Numista omits the “-”).

In Krause the obverse lettering for KM# 56.5 is “GE. WI. MAR. BR. S. R. I. EL.". Numista is the same. They also agree on the reverse lettering of “MONE. NO(VA). DVC. PRVS.” which is incorrect for Numista as the lettering field is supposed to exactly match the pictured coin and not show variations.

(The Krause series KM# 56.* is interesting as it has coins from two different rulers and the obverse lettering includes the title of the rulers.)

I just checked my notes and realized this was discussed two years ago. I had intended to compare my coins and study references but I haven't got around to it yet.

From a quick look through the WCN archive and acsearch, slight obverse legend variations (spelling and punctuation) occur by date for this type (I assume this is the type struck in Konigsberg).

I am finding :

1624 has GE WI MAR (3) BR S R I E L (Olding 49, Marienburg 1458-1459)

1625 - 1628 have GE WI MA (3) BR S R I E (Olding 50 for 1625; Marienburg 1468-1470, 1477, 1482, 1488)

no examples of this type found in the 1630s

(Edited 14th April)

The online KM listings look like this:

KM 56.5 ("3 Gr^scher") in Numismaster and NGC, has no photos, GE. WI. MAR. BR. S. R. I. EL., and years 1624-1628, 1633

KM 116.1 ("1/24 Thaler") in Numismaster and NGC has a photo matching our lsitings, GE. WI. MA. - BR. B. R. I. H., and years 1624-1626  

My guess is that:

- KM 56.5 used the legend from a 1624 coin, and erred in not showing a break in the obverse legend between MAR and BR. 

- KM 116.1 used the legend from a 1625 coin (as shown), but made a mistake, ending the legend with H instead of E. 

- KM 56.5 and KM 116.1 are almost certainly the same coin (I say “almost” because the KM 56.5 listing does not provide a photo).

…but we need a German catalog to confirm it.