Identification of 18th-Century British Shilling [resuelto]

10 mensajes • visto 370 veces

Este tema se publicó en el foro en inglés.

» Acceso rápido al último mensaje

Dear Fellow Numismatists,

I am writing to ask for information about a perplexing coin in my collection. It is a shilling, weighing 4.25 grams and measuring 25mm in diameter. Here is the reverse:

In the shields on the compass points, it bears the Fleur-de-Lys to the east, the Irish harp to the south, the three English lions and rampant Scottish lion to the north and the Hanover crest to the west, each with a crown above them meeting the edge of the coin. The Latin legend around it states the King's titles; much is unfortunately worn, but some areas are still legible, such as ‘REX FD’ in the southeast corner and ‘AT ET E’ in the northwest corner. From what I understand about George II shillings from the 1740s (information from Emma Howard, Coins of England & the United Kingdom: Pre-Decimal Issues (London: Spinks, 2022), p.440), there were two reverse designs, one with roses in the diagonal corners, minted in 1743, 1745 and 1747, and one without the roses, minted in 1745 and 1746 as the famous LIMA coins (this legend is on the obverse, so is not present on this coin for confirmation). There are no traces of the roses in any diagonal corner, especially not in the better-preserved corners, so I would say this design may be based on the 1746/6 one. Shillings were next minted in 1750 without the roses, but the date is most likely from the '40s (see below).

The date is most likely 1740s - the ‘17’ is very clear to the left of the northern crown, and the decade number to its right is slightly worn, but I would say it is most likely a ‘4’. The specific year is completely worn away.

Now I come to the truly perplexing part of this coin: the obverse. From the titles, crests and date, it should show George II. Instead, it shows William III:

He faces the opposite way to George II, and George III (who faces right like William) has a slightly different legend, with his ‘III’ to the left of his head and the full ‘DEI GRATIA’ inscription. This coin, however, reads, albeit worn, only ‘GVILELMVS’ on the left.

To the right is only 'III' DEI GRA', the abbreviated version rather than the full legend as appears on George III's obverse. The first ‘I’ is very difficult to see due to a pierced hole there, but the rest of the legend is visible.

The explanation for such a wrong obverse, of a King who died forty years before the coin's date and belonged to an entirely different ruling dynasty to that described in the reverse legend, has stumped me and anyone with whom I have spoken about this. I am quite certain that this is most likely a contemporary counterfeit coin due to its weight and diameter - I believe it is most likely a silver-plated farthing imitating a shilling, as the weight and diameter are very similar to a farthing from George II. One gentleman suggested that, since forging the king's coinage was a capital offence, some forgers would deliberately strike a coin wrong (in this case, the completely wrong bust) to avoid the gallows, but since the aim of counterfeiting coins was to pass them off as genuine coins, it seems strange that the forger would go to such an extreme. I have scoured the Internet and cannot find anything like it - all the counterfeit coins from the 18th century (including some examples on this website) have the correct obverse and reverse, so my example remains a mystery.

As such, I am left with many questions and I am struggling for answers! I was wondering if you may be able to shed some light on this strange little coin, and in particular help me to understand why the wrong obverse was used on this coin? Thank you very much!

 

Yours sincerely

Numismania76

I am quite certain that this is most likely a contemporary counterfeit coin due to its weight and diameter - I believe it is most likely a silver-plated farthing imitating a shilling, as the weight and diameter are very similar to a farthing from George II. One gentleman suggested that, since forging the king's coinage was a capital offence, some forgers would deliberately strike a coin wrong (in this case, the completely wrong bust) to avoid the gallows, but since the aim of counterfeiting coins was to pass them off as genuine coins.

This is the answer.

Dear nobody,

Thank you very much for your swift reply! Ah, so I essentially answered my own question? How silly of me - apologies for wasting your time! So the forger could argue these coins are not intended to be legal tender since they were deliberately minted wrong, therefore they were not harming the king's coinage and would not be hung - how interesting!

I did just wonder if you would be able to explain this type of forgery to me in detail, as I am not very well-versed in this area: how could they sneak these coins into circulation, since they are so wrong? Would people simply not notice, like we typically do not look too closely at our pocket change today? Since my example has been pierced, would it have been connected to a chain as jewellery, presumably by someone not realising it was a fake? Also, I am struggling to find any similar examples anywhere online - most counterfeit coins seem to have relatively minor errors, nothing to this extreme. Or was using the wrong obverse fairly common amongst forgers, and examples are simply not recorded online at the moment? 

I apologise for inundating you with questions; I just like to find out everything I can about the coins in my collection, and this particular one is evading my research! I'm very grateful for you confirming its identification - I just want to learn more about the world of Georgian counterfeiting to better understand the provenance of this coin! 

Thank you again, and sorry for pestering you again!

 

Yours sincerely

Numismania76

Hi,

This is not my expertise, as I was able to draw my conclusions based on my experience with contemporary counterfeit US and colonial coins. Commonly, there is a reverse type that doesn't match up with an obverse type or a year that doesn't match up with a type of coin that occurred on contemporary counterfeits. However, I doubt in any of these instances that counterfeits were concerned that if their fakes were too good then they would be caught. It's just the nature of forgeries that they will have variations in design, ruler, year, and mint that don't align with the official currency.

It is unknown to what extent this had anything to do with persecution from law enforcement.

As for the hole - maybe it was drilled to signify it wasn't real silver. 

As for the general population not noticing see this case study:

https://www.rarecollectiblestv.com/blog/the-tale-of-josh-tatum-and-his-1883-racketeer-nickel.html

Thank you so much for your answers - that Josh Tatum case with gold-plated nickels is truly fascinating, and the fact that many people were doing it and many shopkeepers were fooled indicates that it would be easy to pass off forged coins as genuine, unless one looks closely! Since forgery was rampant in eighteenth-century Britain, I'm sure this would be the case here; I know that there were issues with meeting demand for certain coins, which increased fakes and tokens, so perhaps my counterfeit shilling may not have caused a stir with the authorities, since such things were so common!

Once again, thank you so much - you've been a great help! 

 

Yours sincerely

Numismania76

Estado cambiado a resuelto (Numismania76, 8 abr 2023, 10:32)

I think I have the same type of counterfeit coin. The shield side matches a 1739 silver shilling but the head looks like William lll not George II. The coin was found with my metal detector and is very badly corroded and looks silver plated.

Dear Goldspade,

             How fascinating! It's very reassuring to know that there are other examples of this specific type of counterfeiting out there - I wonder if both of our coins were made by the same counterfeiter, or if they reflected a wider practice of swapping the monarch's head to avoid the gallows? 

              Thank you for sharing this - and I hope you find many more incredible coins!

 

Yours sincerely,

Numismania76

Numismania76

Dear Goldspade,

             How fascinating! It's very reassuring to know that there are other examples of this specific type of counterfeiting out there - I wonder if both of our coins were made by the same counterfeiter, or if they reflected a wider practice of swapping the monarch's head to avoid the gallows? 

              Thank you for sharing this - and I hope you find many more incredible coins!

 

Yours sincerely,

Numismania76

Thanks! I've only just started metal detecting and this is my first “old” coin so I'm quite surprised to fall upon such an “interesting”  scenario.

 

Here are a couple of images though its in a pretty bad state I've managed to reveal the outline of the head which looks like William lll on your coin. The coin measures 30mm in diameter which is larger than the genuine shilling.

 

Wow, so it does! It's very nice to see more examples of this situation, but unfortunately provenance is often lost. I found mine in a little box of very varied coins in a charity shop, so I have no idea where it came from. At least you know the area yours was found in, although your little coin could have travelled a long way in various hands before it was either lost or identified as a fake and thrown away. Of course, there were so many counterfeit coins in circulation that one more couldn't really hurt, and besides, why should the current owner end up a shilling out of pocket? It's far better to swallow one's principles and keep mum about the fake coin, than to end up losing money through sheer bad luck!

         It certainly warrants more research into counterfeiting in 18th-century England, as I confess I know very little about the subject. Hopefully you'll come across more ‘old’ coins like this in your metal detecting!

 

All the best,

Numismania76

Nice William III CCC. No doubt with a nice cancellation hole from its time period. <BG>

John P Lorenzo

» Política del foro

La zona horaria usada es UTC+2:00.
La hora actual es 4:52.