This is a list of signatures appearing on Bank of Scotland notes. I have images but not with white backgrounds. If these are acceptable, is there a way the images can be added after the list is created? Stormonth Darling : SD : Secretary : 1889-1893 McNeill : McN : Secretary : 1894-1910 McDonald : McD : Secretary : 1911-1919 Rose : R : Secretary : 1920-1931 Sidney Elphinstone : SE : Governor : 1924-1955 John Craig : JC : Governor : 1955-1957 Steven Bilsland : SB : Governor : 1957-1966 Lord Polwarth : P : Governor : 1966-1972 Baron Clydesmuir : C : Governor : 1972-1981 Thomas Risk : TR : Governor : 1981-1991 D. Bruce Pattullo : BDP : Governor : 1991-1998 Alastair Grant : AG : Governor : 1998-1999 John Shaw : JS : Governor : 1999-2001 Peter Burt : PB : Governor : 2001-2003 George Mitchell : GM2 : Governor : 2003-2006 Dennis Stevenson : DS : Governor : 2006-2009 Eric Daniels : ED : Governor : 2009-2011 António Horta-Osório : AHO : Governor : 2011-2021 Charles Nunn : CN : CEO : 2021- A. W. M. Beveridge : AWMB : Treasurer : 1935-1938 Macfarlane : Mf : Treasurer : 1939-1941 John B. Crawford : JBC : Treasurer : 1942-1952 W. Watson : WW : Treasurer : 1952-1966 J. Letham : JL : Treasurer : 1966-1969 Thomas W. Walker : TWW : Treasurer : 1970-1973 A. M. Russell : AMR : Treasurer : 1974-1978 Bruce Pattullo : BP : Treasurer : 1979-1988 Peter Burt : PB : Treasurer : 1988-1995 Gavin Masterton : GM1 : Treasurer : 1996-1999 George Mitchell : GM2 : Treasurer : 2001-2004 Colin Matthew : CM : Treasurer : 2006-2007 Archie Kane : AK : Treasurer : 2009- Philip Grant : PG : Treasurer : 2011-2020 Robin Budenberg : RB : Chairman : 2020-2021
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
it's easier to import directly all the informations. Can you find a way to remove backgrounds from signatures you got?
I've tried on a couple but it's very slow and the results aren't very good. I understand that this would be desirable but I wonder if it's just setting too high a bar for most people?
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
It all depends on the type of background, if it's plain it can be done in under a minute. If it's really busy with high contrast multicolor patterns or low contrast in relation to the signature it is a pain in the ass.
It all depends on the type of background, if it's plain it can be done in under a minute. If it's really busy with high contrast multicolor patterns or low contrast in relation to the signature it is a pain in the ass.
On most Scottish notes it's over a patterned background, often in a similar colour to the signature. Personally, I think the potential distortion of removing the background should at least make us consider keeping it in, as well as removing a major hurdle to adding this information to the catalogue.
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
This is a list of signatures appearing on Bank of Scotland notes. I have images but not with white backgrounds. If these are acceptable, is there a way the images can be added after the list is created? Stormonth Darling : SD : Secretary : 1889-1893 McNeill : McN : Secretary : 1894-1910 McDonald : McD : Secretary : 1911-1919 Rose : R : Secretary : 1920-1931 Sidney Elphinstone : SE : Governor : 1924-1955 John Craig : JC : Governor : 1955-1957 Steven Bilsland : SB : Governor : 1957-1966 Lord Polwarth : P : Governor : 1966-1972 Baron Clydesmuir : C : Governor : 1972-1981 Thomas Risk : TR : Governor : 1981-1991 D. Bruce Pattullo : BDP : Governor : 1991-1998 Alastair Grant : AG : Governor : 1998-1999 John Shaw : JS : Governor : 1999-2001 Peter Burt : PB : Governor : 2001-2003 George Mitchell : GM2 : Governor : 2003-2006 Dennis Stevenson : DS : Governor : 2006-2009 Eric Daniels : ED : Governor : 2009-2011 António Horta-Osório : AHO : Governor : 2011-2021 Charles Nunn : CN : CEO : 2021- A. W. M. Beveridge : AWMB : Treasurer : 1935-1938 Macfarlane : Mf : Treasurer : 1939-1941 John B. Crawford : JBC : Treasurer : 1942-1952 W. Watson : WW : Treasurer : 1952-1966 J. Letham : JL : Treasurer : 1966-1969 Thomas W. Walker : TWW : Treasurer : 1970-1973 A. M. Russell : AMR : Treasurer : 1974-1978 Bruce Pattullo : BP : Treasurer : 1979-1988 Peter Burt : PB : Treasurer : 1988-1995 Gavin Masterton : GM1 : Treasurer : 1996-1999 George Mitchell : GM2 : Treasurer : 2001-2004 Colin Matthew : CM : Treasurer : 2006-2007 Archie Kane : AK : Treasurer : 2009- Philip Grant : PG : Treasurer : 2011-2020 Robin Budenberg : RB : Chairman : 2020-2021
This is a good list of names. Like you, I too keep a record of the signatures (names) of notes that I have. I have most of their full names, except a few. Do you know the full names of the following persons; -
1) A M Russell
2) Archie G Kane (what is the initial of G)
3) Do these people have a second or third name - Sir Bruce Pattullo; Sir Thomas Risk; Gavin Masterton; John Shaw; Colin Matthew; and Philip Grant.
If you have details for the above, please do share. I am only interested in these names, as I have BoS notes from 1974.
ceh2019Personally, I think the potential distortion of removing the background should at least make us consider keeping it in, as well as removing a major hurdle to adding this information to the catalogue.
Agreed! We discussed it with Admins and thought it was way better to have a signature with background than no signature, if background is hard to remove :-)
So ti resume on your request: would be way easier for us to create them directly with images, than in two steps
ahkai - I don't have any more names that those given.
Aidan - I've used “Lord X” when the signature is “X”. Given that “Sir” is never included in the signature, I've left those out, not least because the knighthoods could have come after their tenure.
Compendium - Fine. What's the best way to supply the images?
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
ahkai - I don't have any more names that those given.
Aidan - I've used “Lord X” when the signature is “X”. Given that “Sir” is never included in the signature, I've left those out, not least because the knighthoods could have come after their tenure.
Compendium - Fine. What's the best way to supply the images?
Best would be a to share link of download of a ZIP file with all images in it, or a link to a shared google folder if you use that.
Some fellow contributors also sometimes share them directly as images in post but in case there are a lot of addings it is not the most efficient way
ahkai - I don't have any more names that those given.
Aidan - I've used “Lord X” when the signature is “X”. Given that “Sir” is never included in the signature, I've left those out, not least because the knighthoods could have come after their tenure.
Compendium - Fine. What's the best way to supply the images?
Knighthoods can be found listed in the London Gazette - as can conferrals of life peerages (always at the rank of Baron).
Knighthoods can be found listed in the London Gazette - as can conferrals of life peerages (always at the rank of Baron).
I'd add titles only when appearing on the banknote itself.
Both Pick & The Banknote Book lists titles as does some central bank websites, such as the Reserve Bank of India, which had several Governors who had knighthoods before, during, & after their tenures in office.
Yes but what is added value if it doesnot appear on the banknote? Also there is high risk of errors depending on when each people received their title if nornt hereditary (it may lead us to duplicate signatures fir before they received it and after)
Yes but what is added value if it doesnot appear on the banknote? Also there is high risk of errors depending on when each people received their title if nornt hereditary (it may lead us to duplicate signatures fir before they received it and after)
That's fine but what do we do about Lord Polwarth and Baron Clydesmuir, whose signatures were just Polwarth and Clydesmuir? Are we happy with just Polwarth and Clydesmuir?
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
First names must appear everytime, ar least initial if we dont fing the full name in documentation. They're identifiers of the person whatever the dates :-)
First names must appear everytime, ar least initial if we dont fing the full name in documentation. They're identifiers of the person whatever the dates :-)
These peers didn't use their first names. As far as they were concerned, their names were Lord Polwarth and Baron Clydesmuir. That's why they signed just Polwarth and Clydesmuir, no initials. We can find out what their other names were but the question is how do we list them? With a name they didn't use or with the name they did use?
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
These peers didn't use their first names. As far as they were concerned, their names were Lord Polwarth and Baron Clydesmuir. That's why they signed just Polwarth and Clydesmuir, no initials. We can find out what their other names were but the question is how do we list them? With a name they didn't use or with the name they did use?
Apparently civil names are not forbidden even for peers. Lets stick with civil names for everyone no?
These peers didn't use their first names. As far as they were concerned, their names were Lord Polwarth and Baron Clydesmuir. That's why they signed just Polwarth and Clydesmuir, no initials. We can find out what their other names were but the question is how do we list them? With a name they didn't use or with the name they did use?
Apparently civil names are not forbidden even for peers. Lets stick with civil names for everyone no?
Or would you put only Baron Clydesmuir?
No, they weren't forbidden but they were often not used. We know this for the two in question here from their signatures. If we put this person's “civil name” down when their signature was “Clydesmuir”, that would be both confusing and (at least somewhat) inaccurate. I started by suggesting “Baron Clydesmuir” but maybe the best way forward would be “2nd Baron Clydesmuir”, just in case another holder of the title turns up later?
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
Dont worry about homonyms: we have date field, also wikidata code when it exists, + a system to disambiguate initials when needed.
Si initials there would be BC? Or Bar.C? Or else?
Just C, as in my original list. The signature is “Clydesmuir”, nothing else. I am saying this on the understanding that the initials should reflect the signature. If we want to use a different system, that's fine but it needs setting out.
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
You would need a minimum 600dpi true resolution scan of the note to lift the signature from the background when the contrast is low.
Some scanners will give a higher resolution than this. It is important to not use interpolated resolution, as this blurs the image and will not make it easier to separate the signature.
Perhaps images could be supplied from members who have examples of the notes.
This is something I will be doing for the Irish notes section.
You would need a minimum 600dpi true resolution scan of the note to lift the signature from the background when the contrast is low.
Some scanners will give a higher resolution than this. It is important to not use interpolated resolution, as this blurs the image and will not make it easier to separate the signature.
Perhaps images could be supplied from members who have examples of the notes.
This is something I will be doing for the Irish notes section.
I've been prompted to finally get this started by a member who has some scans of signatures. I'm going to set up a folder, then invite members to see if they can supply a better scan than I have.
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
You would need a minimum 600dpi true resolution scan of the note to lift the signature from the background when the contrast is low.
Some scanners will give a higher resolution than this. It is important to not use interpolated resolution, as this blurs the image and will not make it easier to separate the signature.
Perhaps images could be supplied from members who have examples of the notes.
This is something I will be doing for the Irish notes section.
I've been prompted to finally get this started by a member who has some scans of signatures. I'm going to set up a folder, then invite members to see if they can supply a better scan than I have.
I uploaded a link to files containing images and details many months ago. As I can't now find that post, I must assume I did it on the referee's forum. Unfortunately, the site I uploaded them to is not allowing me to access my account, due to the time that has since elapsed. I still have the files, so if you have a way of uploading them to Numista, please let me know.
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
I uploaded a link to files containing images and details many months ago. As I can't now find that post, I must assume I did it on the referee's forum. Unfortunately, the site I uploaded them to is not allowing me to access my account, due to the time that has since elapsed. I still have the files, so if you have a way of uploading them to Numista, please let me know.
You can either share them through a ZIP file using a direct download service or use a shared google folder for instance
It was a shared Google folder that I tried. That's the account that I can no longer access. If you check the referees forum, you may find the post with the link.
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
It was a shared Google folder that I tried. That's the account that I can no longer access. If you check the referees forum, you may find the post with the link.
I looked before my last answer but found nothing on keywords signatures or scotland in referees forum
It was a shared Google folder that I tried. That's the account that I can no longer access. If you check the referees forum, you may find the post with the link.
I looked before my last answer but found nothing on keywords signatures or scotland in referees forum
It's so long ago, I'm not sure how I posted it. Can you recommend a direct download service and I'll put all the files in a zip?
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
Thanks. There's one signature I haven't been able to identify, that of the first Treasurer to sign notes, between 1929 and 1931. It appears on this £1 note. It's in the zip file as “BoS T1.jpg”. It ends “cott” but I can't make out the rest or find any reference. How should we proceed?
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
