It seems rumour has it that the Indian Govt. has decided to stop issuing commemorative coins in lower denominations i.e. Re1, Rs2, Rs5 and Rs10 whether in circulation or as special collector editions.
This appears to be validated as recent new issues such as the following are noticeably missing their lower denomination counterparts
- Rs75 - 75th Anniversary of Flag hoisting on Andaman Islands
- Rs350 - 350th Anniversary of Guru Gobind Singh
- Rs100 - 95th Anniversary of Atal Bihari Vajpayee
- Rs200 - 200th Anniversary of Paika Rebellion
This would probably make the Rs5 PC Mahanobolis as the last commemorative issued into circulation.
There are several reasons I hear for this major decision, but key among them is feedback from coin societies in India of collector fatigue with the recent spurt of issues going back over the last 10 years. This has been demonstrated with multiple re-bookings of Proof/UNC sets especially by the Kolkata mint. Moreover, the Reserve Bank of India which holds the coins in its currency chests across the country before disbursement has apparently stopped taking any more product from the mints due to lack of space. To add to it, the mints have been consistently behind their production targets for both regular circulation/standard definition coinage as well as commemorative coinage (meant for circulation)
I'm not sure if there are other countries that have taken similar decisions to stop issuing commemorative coins into circulation. But when it's all said and done, most Indian collectors, including myself for that matter, I've spoken to seem to have collectively heaved a very audible sigh of relief !
I'm OK with commems, but there are some limits. What moronic committee came up with the dumb idea of celebrating a 95th anniversary?
► Rs100 ─ 95th Anniversary of Atal Bihari Vajpayee
What are they going to do in five years, celebrate the 100th? OK, and then, the 105th? This is even worse than Canada's 90th of the Mint 1908─1998 and then ignoring the 100th!
Cita: "Camerinvs"I'm OK with commems, but there are some limits. What moronic committee came up with the dumb idea of celebrating a 95th anniversary?
► Rs100 ─ 95th Anniversary of Atal Bihari Vajpayee
What are they going to do in five years, celebrate the 100th? OK, and then, the 105th? This is even worse than Canada's 90th of the Mint 1908─1998 and then ignoring the 100th!
Until 2002, it was usual practice to issue two themes annually, however this jumped to 6 by 2010 and peaked at 15 in 2015. To add to collector woes, the average price per Proof/UNC set increased by about 3.5-4.5x over that time frame. On average a proof set now costs ~C$75 while an UNC set costs ~C$60. So in 2015, if you wanted to buy all 15 sets, you'd have to shell out between $900-$1125. That's pricey even by our canadian standards!
Glad you pointed out this oddity on the Rs100 Vajpayee coin!
There are generally two ways that coin subjects are originated and finally issued. The first way, much as it is in Canada, a committee with govt. backing (whether in legislature or elsewhere) is set up to decide on activities/budgets to commemorate an event over the year. This was the case for the Rs75 Flag hoisting and Rs350 Guru Gobind themes.
The other way is much more opaque and subject to political discretion at a federal ministerial level. Atal Bihari Vajpayee was a former PM from the current ruling party in the 2000s who died earlier this year. His 95th Anniversary is on 25th Dec 2018. The political season in India has informally already opened since a couple months with national elections scheduled for the summer of 2019. So this is obviously a blatant political ploy. Its questionable how useful such a collector coin, which will never see circulation, is as a propaganda tool; afterall, only a few thousand will probably be sold in a country with more than 400M eligible voters. Of course, this is only giving context to what is obviously a moronic idea (probably no committee to blame though)
On a side note, mintage figures for circulation coins and sales of collector coins are covered under the National Secrets Act, a throwback to the days when India was more socialist in its tendencies
Cita: "Camerinvs"I'm OK with commems, but there are some limits. What moronic committee came up with the dumb idea of celebrating a 95th anniversary?
Even if a mint really wanted to issue a commemorative coin, couldn't they find some other event that happened 100 years ago to commemorate rather than issue a 95th anniversary commemoration? I'm sure it would feel so, so much more wrong to issue a "95th anniversary of the Armistice/end of WWI" coin in 2014.
Cita: "CassTaylor"
Even if a mint really wanted to issue a commemorative coin, couldn't they find some other event that happened 100 years ago to commemorate rather than issue a 95th anniversary commemoration? I'm sure it would feel so, so much more wrong to issue a "95th anniversary of the Armistice/end of WWI" coin in 2014.
You obviously did not read my comment. I can’t but feel a little disappointed that here I am taking the effort to share this kind of information/insight and it seems to be completely lost or willfully ignored.
ok I’m ranting a bit, but please read and don’t assume that what passes in Europe is the same case everywhere. Thats the whole point I’m writing all this for the benefit of Numista members
lol, what?
No, I did read your posts, and I absolutely appreciated your insight into the possible political machinations behind that particular Rs100 commemorative coin's untimely issue. But my post was talking about commemorative issues that commemorate unorthodox anniversaries (e.g. the 67th or 89th anniversary of something) in general rather than anything specifically about that coin, and suddenly you're having a go at me for it.
Cita: "CassTaylor"lol, what?
No, I did read your posts, and I absolutely appreciated your insight into the possible political machinations behind that particular Rs100 commemorative coin's untimely issue. But my post was talking about commemorative issues that commemorate unorthodox anniversaries (e.g. the 67th or 89th anniversary of something) in general rather than anything specifically about that coin, and suddenly you're having a go at me for it.
Cita: "ashlobo"
ok I’m ranting a bit
Yeah, sorry but you kind of were.
well if you read it, you obviously didn’t understand it. The mint doesn’t have a say in what gets minted in the indian context. That 95th anniversary theme was handed down from the powers that be in the govt.
if you were talking in general, then using that as an example wasn’t the way to go about it. I’m not interested in having a go at you... and not everything is about you and honestly no one on Numista deserves that kind of treatment. So I highlighted in bold from your quote and commented accordingly.
Fair enough- for clarity's sake I should have used that RCM 90th anniversary commemorative Camerinvs brought up as an example for my general point instead.
I must admit I didn't know who Atal Bihari Vajpayee was. Actually, I didn't know who he/she was or what it was. Anyway I'm happy that I have no interest in non-circulating coins.
By the way last summer in Berlin, at the Sunday market on Bernauerstraße, I found an Indian coin which I though was commemorating a rather odd thing: the 150th anniversary of the Comptroller and Auditor General of India 1860-2010.
It's quite strange that mintage figures should be a state secret. Is there any other country which does that? I suppose North Korea?
Cita: "Camerinvs"I must admit I didn't know who Atal Bihari Vajpayee was. Actually, I didn't know who he/she was or what it was. Anyway I'm happy that I have no interest in non-circulating coins.
By the way last summer in Berlin, at the Sunday market on Bernauerstraße, I found an Indian coin which I though was commemorating a rather odd thing: the 150th anniversary of the Comptroller and Auditor General of India 1860-2010.
It's quite strange that mintage figures should be a state secret. Is there any other country which does that? I suppose North Korea?
Vajpayee was quite the heavyweight of Indian politics. He was an active member of Hindu nationalist parties during the British Raj times and was even implicated in the conspiracy to assasinate Mahatma Gandhi, though there was no evidence of that. He then gained notoriety again for leading the Ram Temple Marches on Ayodhya which eventually led to the destruction of the 15th century Mughal Emperor Babur’s Mosque that set of religious riots across India. In 1996, he became India’s shortest Tenure PM. When he came back to power in 1998, he gave the order to detonate the 5 nuclear bombs that changed how the world perceived India. He then engaged in bus diplomacy with Pakistan's Sharif, both countries entering into a very brief moment of bonhomie. However, this changed very quickly In 1999, when he was weighing the decision to go to war with Pakistan over the Kargil conflict caused by Pakistani terrorists and militants in the Himalayas.
Quite the resume you see!
the Comptroller & Auditor General of India popularly known as CAG, is the indian govt. finance watchdog. It’s an independent organization that has unearthed several scams in the past few decades, the most recent and politically shattering being the Mining scam and the 3G spectrum allocation scam. The Auditor General (whoever he/she is) is often likened to a rock Star.
EDIT: it was pointed out to me i mixed up my timelines regarding the bus diplomacy initiative and the Kargil conflict. I have corrected it here
Cita: "CassTaylor"Fair enough- for clarity's sake I should have used that RCM 90th anniversary commemorative Camerinvs brought up as an example for my general point instead.
Alright, in the spirit of sharing information, the sale of collector coins from Indian mints differ very distinctly from their counterparts in North America and Europe. First off , there are 4 mints viz Noida (North), Kolkata (East), Hyderabad (South), Mumbai (West). Only the Mumbai and Kolkata mint issue collector coins (i.e. denominations above Rs10). Hyderabad mint did try to get in on the action, but so far has recently been issuing coin cards of commemorative lower denomination coins. Noida is the newest of the mints and only issues business strikes of both, standard circulation and commemorative coins.
Now unlike, say in Canada, where the mint announces that it has issued X number of collector coins and then will keep selling until stocks last, the Mumbai/Kolkata mints will instead announce a "Booking Period" of 2-3 months. One must place an order for the sets during that period. The mint will then produce quantities based on orders received and perhaps a few extra. While there are no concrete numbers of how many collector coins have been issued since 1969, I recall in the 1990's that generally not more than a few 100 sets would have been produced based on the orders received. Back in 2010-11, someone I know closely associated with the mints mentioned the number is now in the few thousands (perhaps 7-8k).
What is frustrating about the mints is that once the order has been placed and the booking period closed, one has to wait 6 months or more to receive the sets. In a few instances, I waited more than 2 years to receive my sets! (Deshbandhu Chittranjan das and Mother Teresa sets especially). However, as time has gone by, the average delivery period has improved from about 18 months to around 5-6 months now.
It gets even more confusing when you consider that although a coin was "issued" say in 2015, the set might only become available for "booking" in 2018.
Being a collector of Indian coin requires a lot of patience you see
I just checked Vajpayee and now remember that very brief prime-ministership, though I couldn't associate a name with it. This news item posted yesterday is about the new coin and also about his career. Unless I missed something, it's not clear whether it will be a circulating or non-circulating coin. By the way he died in August at 93.
Cita: "Camerinvs"Interesting all this...
I just checked Vajpayee and now remember that very brief prime-ministership, though I couldn't associate a name with it. This news item posted yesterday is about the new coin and also about his career. Unless I missed something, it's not clear whether it will be a circulating or non-circulating coin. By the way he died in August at 93.
Ever so often, indian newspapers will deliberately or not give readers the impression that these coins will end up in their wallets. This is most definitely a collector coin (50% silver quaternary alloy) that will be surcharged. As of now, 50p,Re1,2,5,10 are the only circulating legal tender in the country. There is talk of a Rs20 coin coming out very soon though
Cita: "pnightingale"Thanks Ash, more than interesting! As always, I find myself amazed at what I don't know.
im glad you enjoyed it Phil. Here’s one more nugget I do recall. Most of the FAO series issued annually in the 1970s were actually sold abroad. I believe this was something that several communist/socialist countries did to earn foreign exchange. These sets were minted in much larger numbers than later issues and as such, you’re very likely to still see them floating around on eBay US and Europe in cassettes or loose coins at relatively cheaper prices than other issues that followed
Cita: "worth"Ash, great lesson on Indian commemorative coinage. Have enjoyed reading it and will pay more attention to Indian coins I come across in the future.
Glad you liked it. I had done a write up on each commemorative theme. However, I haven't updated it in a while. I'll eventually get back to it. Besides a little history, there is also some trivia about each coin which you may find interesting
Cita: "worth"Ash, great lesson on Indian commemorative coinage. Have enjoyed reading it and will pay more attention to Indian coins I come across in the future.
Glad you liked it. I had done a write up on each commemorative theme. However, I haven't updated it in a while. I'll eventually get back to it. Besides a little history, there is also some trivia about each coin which you may find interesting
https://en.numista.com/forum/topic52655.html
What is with all these weird a$$ values like 75 and 350 Rupees?
And a 95th anniversary, is the dude like tied in with the Party in Power and they are worried in 5 years time, they will be out of power? and the dude being commemorated will no longer be worthy of it?
Looking at India's coin, their rupee is like worth 1p or 2cents and their biggest coin is only 10 Rupees or 20 Rupees.
What is stopping them from issuing 50 and 100 Rupees as circulation pieces?
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Cita: "Moneytane"What is with all these weird a$$ values like 75 and 350 Rupees?
And a 95th anniversary, is the dude like tied in with the Party in Power and they are worried in 5 years time, they will be out of power? and the dude being commemorated will no longer be worthy of it?
Looking at India's coin, their rupee is like worth 1p or 2cents and their biggest coin is only 10 Rupees or 20 Rupees.
What is stopping them from issuing 50 and 100 Rupees as circulation pieces?
Coins are the legal prerogative of the Govt under the Finance Ministry while Paper money comes under the Reserve Bank Of India. Accordingly to the Coinage Act, the govt can issue legal tender up to Rs1000. At the moment circulation coinage goes up to Rs10 with a Rs20 coin very recently being unveiled but not yet in circulation
The gimmick to issue denominations aligned with their commemorative anniversary started in 2010 with the issue of a Rs75 coin to celebrate the anniversary of the RBI. Before that, it was typical to Only issue all or some of the following denominations - Rs100/50/20/10/5/2/1
About your question on a coin to commemorate the 95th anniversary of Vajapayee, the short answer is an emphatic yes. Had the Congress come back to powerful, highly unlikely they would have sanctioned a coin to commemorate him. However, the BJP won the election that year and are currently still in power
As of now, the most popular banknotes are Rs100 and Rs500 while among coins it’s still Rs 1,2,5. You can still buy a few things with those denominations. The 50 paise has not been minted since 2013 I believe, though it has not yet been demonetised. A Rs20 coin is on its way shortly, but I can imagine a Rs50 coin becoming necessary in the near future given that inflation has always been between the 5-10% range and it’ll probably get even higher as the govt tries to jumpstart the economy from the current lock down
CamerinvsI'm OK with commems, but there are some limits. What moronic committee came up with the dumb idea of celebrating a 95th anniversary?
► Rs100 ─ 95th Anniversary of Atal Bihari Vajpayee
What are they going to do in five years, celebrate the 100th? OK, and then, the 105th? This is even worse than Canada's 90th of the Mint 1908─1998 and then ignoring the 100th!
It seems your comment above has come to ber fruit. It is likely that a 100th anniversary coin will be issued for Vajpayee as his Party is still in power, and guess what.. election season will begin this year :)
I think the previous coin wasn't as such a 95th anniversary, but rather a commemoration of his entire life, 1924-2018.
Still, it's quite odd that only five years later another coin will be issued for him…
Is it the UNESCO that has guidelines about commemorating personalities after their deaths (with street or building names, coins, etc.)? I believe they recommend to let at least 5 years pass before doing so. I may be wrong about the exact guidelines, but I remember hearing or reading about something like this many years ago.
I think the previous coin wasn't as such a 95th anniversary, but rather a commemoration of his entire life, 1924-2018.
Still, it's quite odd that only five years later another coin will be issued for him…
Is it the UNESCO that has guidelines about commemorating personalities after their deaths (with street or building names, coins, etc.)? I believe they recommend to let at least 5 years pass before doing so. I may be wrong about the exact guidelines, but I remember hearing or reading about something like this many years ago.
nope, it was very much issued at a ceremony on his 95th birthday which happens to be 25 Dec. sure you can call it a celebration of his life.
As regards unesco rules, I’m not sure. But india does currently have a rule not to commemorate living people on buildings, roads or any other memorials. i don’t know whether there are any waiting periods. Previously the only exceptions for made for prime ministers who were assasinated such as Indira Gandhi and Rajiv Gandhi. Nehru was commemorated in 1964 on his death as indias first prime minister. Else the wait periods were significant. Lately I think theyve become more lax.
I just noticed that this means they celebrated his 94th anniversary, because he died at 93+ earlier that same year.
Whatever may be the case, it's unfortunate when commemorations are relegated to NCLTs rather than real coins. In Canada, we had circulating coins in 2002 for the 50th of the Queen, marked 1952-2002, but for some reason this wasn't done also in 2012 and 2022.
and honestly no one on Numista deserves that kind of treatment. So I highlighted in bold from your quote and commented accordingly. 
